The Lana Del Rey vs. Ethel Cain Feud, Explained

Which singer-songwriter is in the right?

Update: I added a section at the very end for any updates to this, because this is still an ongoing story. I added three details I just learned and wanted to share in that section, check it out when you’re finished reading if you’d like.

The First Spark

This past Thursday, Lana Del Rey seemingly came out of nowhere to “diss” fellow Americana-obsessed singer-songwriter Ethel Cain. On a snippet of a new track produced by Jack Antonoff entitled “All About Ethel”, Lana aired out issues she had with Ethel that many fans of both artists were unaware of. “Ethel Cain hated my Instagram post” she sang in her typical hushed and emotional tone, “thinks it's cute reenactin’ my Chicago pose.” she continued. The song preview set social media (especially my domain of Instagram) on fire, with users immediately connecting all the dots.

Ethel Cain, on the left with SALEM member Jack Donoghue. Lana Del Rey, on the right with Donoghue in Chicago.

“The most famous girl at the Waffle House”

A New York Times profile on Ethel Cain on left. Lana Del Rey "working" at a Waffle House.

“I’m as famous at the show as I am on the Florida-Alabama line”

“That’s why I love Alabama: Nobody in this Waffle House knows who I am, nobody at Walmart knows who I am. Down here I can just be a local girl, and I love that” Ethel Cain on living a quiet Southern life for New York Times

The lines and references were as clear as day, Lana Del Rey really did not fuck with Ethel Cain, but why? Well, if you care (I understand if you don’t) then stick around and I’ll explain it beat for beat, and let you know who I believe is more in the right. But first…

Who Are These People? (Skip If You Know)

I was too lazy to make my own side-by-side so I stole this one from Cosmopolitan

Unless you actively follow this kind of music, you may not be caught up on Lana Del Rey and Ethel Cain at all. More people know Del Rey — she headlines any festival she plays and objectively has a “bigger career” — but not everyone knows her music like that. This is even more true for Ethel, an artist that purposely avoids the limelight at all costs, hence the aforementioned NYT quote. So who are they, why do people care about them or their music, and what similar characteristics do they have that makes them perfect foils for an internet clash?

Lana

Lana Del Rey (real name Lizzy Grant) first came to prominence in 2010, with a massive boost from Tumblr. The American flags, white dresses and fireworks pervasive in her imagery was built for the Tumblr culture at the time, with similar images of blonde women in American Apparel tank tops getting millions of likes and shares.

Her first few albums, like Born To Die and Ultraviolence, really wore that old school, patriarchal American influence on the sleeve, with songs like “Fucked My Way To The Top” dodging subtlety at all costs. She began to progress her sound in more interesting directions, exploring different parts of American culture and locale through these sultry bits of auto-fiction, slowly getting more poetic and independent with each release. Norman Fucking Rockwell! and Did You Know That There’s A Tunnel Under Ocean Boulevard? are probably the finest examples of this, playing out less like albums and more like god-tier beach reads. The latter was particularly dense with details, which is why is was our third best album of the year in 2023.

With each passing album cycle, she’s collaborated with prominent figures in the music industry like A$AP Rocky, Father John Misty, Quavo, and of course, her rock, the ever-prolific Jack Antonoff. She’s having a hell of a year in 2025, she just played two sold-out shows at Wembley Stadium, she’s at 22.3M followers on Instagram, and racks in billions of streams each year. Not that any of that pertains to the quality of the artistry at all (as some fans falsely equivocate), but it’s important to understand that Lana has not been a niche indie singer for a long time. She was on a Taylor Swift album, she is a massive star at this point who millions and millions of people listen to whenever she decides to speak out.

It’s also important to note that Lana grew up on the East Coast, with somewhat wealthy parents. Making music about the South or the American heartland was something she had to go out of her way to do, not a subject that was in her backyard.

Ethel

Ethel Cain (real name Hayden Silas Anhedönia) also came up through Tumblr, but it was after the website had long been abandoned. She would use it to release demos, answer fan questions, and build the lore of the character she was portraying. Growing up in a religious background in Northern Florida, mildew and holy water scented church settings, coupled with reckless and youthful activities, came naturally to Hayden. She took advantage of this Southern Gothic setting to explore the dark heart of America in a similar way to Lana, but put more heavy emphasis on the more evil, corrosive nature of it all.

Her releases Inbred, Preacher’s Daughter and her newest album, Willoughby Tucker, I Will Always Love You, all explore the same story of the fictional “Ethel Cain” character, who is always getting into violent and disturbing situations. She boldly wades into taboo and uncomfortable themes of incest, abusive religious practices, and demonic possession. Her music is more controversial for this reason, with her hardcore fanbase absolutely loving every dispatch, and outlets like Pitchfork continuing to give lame scores. The critical complaints about her music are that the songs are too long and meandering and crucially to this article, she is too similar to Lana Del Rey. Personally, I can understand the comparisons, but I feel as though Ethel’s music is far more explorative and horror-centric. (I gave Preacher’s Daughter a B+, Perverts a B, and Willoughby Tucker a B-, just so you understand that I do like her stuff a lot and do not align with Pitchfork’s narrow perspective on it.)

They really differ career-wise as well, with Ethel actively avoiding attention at all costs. She lives in a modest house out in Northern Florida with her sister. She has essentially been operating her own label Daughters of Cain, with additional support from a bigger label; with her last album, she went fully independent. Her compelling music is mostly made by herself, and she makes what she likes above all, even if it risks wider appeal being cut short.

There is an admirable authenticity to her art, despite its themes being heavily embellished fiction. The songs itself often also seem to keep her away from the mainstream conversation, with track lengths stretching past 15 minutes at times. Her EP from this year, Perverts, was mostly dark ambient drone with spare spoken word over top. If you have to know one thing about Ethel Cain, it’s that she makes the art and lives the life she wants to live, “star potential” be damned. She like an anti-star in the best way possible.

Back To The Feud

Now that you understand the careers and motivations of these two unique artists, let’s drop back into what’s going on in 2025. Take a moment to absorb the recent snippet “All About Ethel”, the little biographies about each artist, and now, one last piece of the puzzle. This is a comment that Lana left on some Pop Slop entertainment page, further digging into her gripes:

So, are Lana’s many very specific hangups with Ethel legitimate? Well, let’s go issue by issue.

Did Ethel Cain really “hate” her Instagram post?

I would say that despite Ethel’s picture actually being taken before Lana’s, there is some validity to what Lana is saying in her song. Ethel did not “re-enact” the pose, because the photo on the left was taken before the one on the right. BUT, Ethel did seem to post it AFTER Lana posted hers, allegedly with the caption “ok wait my turn”, before deleting it. I don’t blame Lana for thinking this was a bit shady. But, technically, Ethel did it first.

Waffle House Fame

Many fans had originally thought the Waffle House pictures from 2023 popped up because Lana was doing some form of method acting. Maybe she was going to write a song called “The night you left me at the waffle house” or something, but it never materialized. Now, we essentially know the real reason, and it was to disprove the title of that New York Times profile piece about Ethel. Ethel claimed to not be recognized there, Lana was recognized immediately, get it? I find this to be shockingly petty, an exercise that someone as well known as Lana did not need to engage in. I’m sure Ethel didn’t pick that title either, so why take something away from her that she never even claimed herself? In fact, the first quote from Ethel from that article is “I don’t want to be a celebrity”, so to flaunt her success while pretending to be a blue collar worker, is Drake level cosplay and is kind of cringe in my opinion. Still, there is a part of me that thinks Lana going through all that effort for a joke who’s punchline wouldn’t land for two years later, is objectively very funny.

Did Ethel Talk About Lana’s Weight and Compare Her To “Creatures” and “Cartoon Characters”?

Here’s what I’ll say about this. Lana makes a lot of extremely specific accusations towards Ethel when it comes to apparent shit talk that Ethel did towards her. She invokes “disturbing side-by-side comparisons” without providing any evidence of such, even through a third party. Here are the closest things I could find to what she is talking about, and if this is all she has, then I am giving this point to Ethel.

Here is a GIF of Peter Griffin dancing to Madonna’s “Ray of Light”, next to lyrics from Lana Del Rey’s “A&W.” There’s no exactly a good way for me to say this, but at a time when Lana was a bit heavier, around the time she was dating Jack Donoghue. Either Ethel is a master gaslighter and knew that she could compare Lana to fat Peter Griffin through a “harmless” GIF, or, the more likely explanation, it was just her liking the song and thought Peter dancing to it would be funny. I am ruling against Lana in this one, if this is what she’s talking about. However, if I’m presented with something that proves she posted this and did it to antagonize her, I will consider it and likely give this point to Lana.

When it comes to the comments about her weight, there is not a single public post, image, story — anything — where Ethel can be seen making rude comments about Lana’s weight. If someone has that smoking gun, please link it in the comments below and I will make an editorial change. All that’s really been found are some nasty comments made by someone who is apparently friend of Ethel’s. This connection, in my estimation, is bit dubious. There are a few pictures of them together, but that doesn’t prove they’re close necessarily.

Feel free to explore that on this r/LanaDelRey Reddit thread, proceed with caution I don’t endorse anyone’s opinions on any thread necessarily.

I actually don’t care to elaborate on this much because these are not Ethel’s sentiments. Maybe Ethel could reel in her unhinged associate a bit, but it’s not her words so this idea that she’s accountable for what another grown adult spews on social media is actually fucking insane, to me.

Beyond that, I refuse to dig and deep dive any further into this point. In a court of law, Lana is the Plantiff and therefore the burden of proof regarding any “unflattering”, “disturbing” comparative memes that Ethel has shared is for her camp to find and bring to the light. If this is all we get, I give another point to Ethel here.

All About Ethel / All About Eve

The last point I’d like to address is the title of Lana’s diss track, “All About Ethel.” Those familiar with classic cinema know that this is an obvious reference to the film All About Eve, in which a younger actress forms a bond with an aging, solidified actress in order to slowly take her spot, her identity, and banish her into irrelevance. The process is slowly done and at first reads as admiration, before the “Evil Eye” stuff really kicks into high gear as the film plods along. So, what is Lana trying to say about Ethel?

Considering that both Lana and Ethel are auto-fiction characters in a dramatized version of real life, it’s actually kind of a brilliant invocation. Maybe the details aren’t realistically all there, just like on Charli xcx’s callout to Lorde “Girl, so confusing.” But, there are points to be made. I’ll say it upfront, Ethel has allegedly made some sideways comments about how artistically she’s “ran past [Lana] and pushed her over” or that Lana “could not catch up to [Ethel] in her Macy’s dress” (which actually seem to originate from a fake Stan account and not her.) However rude that may be (if it’s real) I don’t really see that as Ethel wanting Lana to go away and her to take that spot, at all.

Additionally, Ethel is certainly inspired by Lana’s slow-burning odes to Americana, she’s covered Lana’s “Born To Die”. When Lana saw the Waffle House article title and Ethel with a picture of a guy she was dating at the time, she probably thought “this girl is copying me.” Not that any validity comes from disgusting sources like this, but Kiwi Farms/4chan adjacent boards (that I will not link) have called Ethel a “Lana Del Rey skinwalker”, which is basically the plot of All About Eve. According to these troglodytes, she wants Lana dead and irrelevant so she can pick up that mantlepiece. It makes for great drama and narrativized fiction, but to me, it’s bullshit for several reasons.

First off, both of these women can and do have their own space in the music landscape. To pit herself against Ethel like this is to toe the line of the patriarchal world Lana has built around her music. Any two women that make similar music need to hate each other, is how the music industry goes, and Lana is just keeping that tradition alive here. Aside from some surface level subject matter, songwriting and genre parallels that one could draw, I do not see their music being similar at all. Pure Lana fans who don’t know Ethel all that well might fuck with “American Teenager” or “Fuck Me Eyes”, which are Lana-ish, but they would immediately be lost when it comes to the other hour and 10 minutes of each respective record these songs were on.

Even so, can Lana ever be cited as a great and influential artist if younger artists don’t take any inspiration from her? Having some similar elements and subject matter is a far cry from “skin walking.”

When it comes to goals and aspirations, Lana is on a continued trajectory towards mega stardom, she’s essentially there already. As I said, she’s worked with Taylor Swift, she was nominated for an Album of the Year Grammy, she’s playing stadiums, has all these followers — that’s her prerogative.

Ethel could not do more to hide herself away from this spotlight. Eve in All About Eve wanted to be the biggest and brightest star, Ethel just simply does not care about that. When asked if Ethel would work with Jack Antonoff, Lana’s producer, which would be a massive career move, she said “absolutely not.” To me, details like this really refute Lana’s narrative. If she needs to watch for anyone All About Eve-ing her, it’s Addison Rae, who’s songs like “Diet Pepsi” and “Summer Forever” are legitimate Lana cosplay. I’m joking of course, but what does actually piss me off is that Pitchfork praises Addison for copying Lana while discounting Ethel’s work as derivative. I really think this lazy and uneven coverage of Ethel’s music is probably the sole cause for issues like this to even be aired out on tracks like “All About Ethel.”

So, the All About Eve reference is bold and narratively interesting, but ultimately, falls flat on its face when you realize that Ethel is not an orbiter of Lana, but a neighboring planet with its own characteristics, populous and goals. She doesn’t want to take her spot, but instead have her own seat at the table.

Nicki Minaj Enters The Chat

One last and brief point: for some reason, Nicki Minaj has decided to get involved. She recently discovered what was happening, and got addicted to singing “Ethel Cain hated my Instagram post”, leading her to listen through Lana’s catalog and get impressed by how the music brought her back to a different time. What I wouldn’t give to play back Lana’s discography with fresh ears.

She has been recorded in Twitter spaces asking questions like “do we know someone named Ethel?” To be honest, I don’t know where she stands in all of this. She is a music fan first and foremost, even before being an artist, so I bet she will side with Lana just because the music is more palatable, acclaimed and similar to her tastes. I don’t know why she decided to put her hat in the ring, but I find it extremely comical and I hope that she can maybe act as the Judge Judy of this situation. That is, a sassy, short-tempered but ultimately fair and just arbiter of this struggle session.

Conclusion

Another side-by-side I stole, this time from Billboard.

So, with all the receipts submitted into evidence, where do I stand in all of this? Well, I think both parties have some validity to their claims, to be honest. At first, I thought what Lana was doing seemed really misguided and pathetic. The picture Ethel took of Jack came first, the Waffle House fiasco just seemed overly petty, and she provided no evidence for any of her claims. Some context has shed light and given credibility to some of what she’s said. Particularly, Ethel posting the photo with Jack with the caption “ok my turn” plus the comments about “pushing [Lana] over” are news to me.” However, I think that’s because that statement originated from an Ethel fan account, not from Ethel herself.

I’ve also read that Ethel was upset with Lana comparisons and has feverishly edited her Wikipedia to remove any reference to that, which to me is a little over-the-top. If you don’t care about critics and know you make different music than Lana, what need is there to fret about something so unimportant?

So, Ethel is in the wrong for a few reasons that I’ve listed, but ultimately I think many aspects of Lana’s complaints just don’t really add up. This idea that Ethel wants her spot comes from rabid fans and snarkers who are divorced from reality. The allegation of Ethel making “constant comments about [her] weight” seems to be unfounded.

The Peter Griffin GIF comparison is a stretch to me as well, but I’ll wait for further context. And if Lana is the one being copied, why did she go to Waffle House seemingly just to best Ethel? It just proves more than Ethel is the real deal, she fits in at a blue collar waffle establishment, and Lana sticks out like a sore thumb because she doesn’t belong there. Her directly copying Ethel is a bit hypocritical to me, and shows that her value system is a bit flawed.

Furthermore, Lana not providing any real evidence for her claims coupled with her saying “I heard what she was saying behind closed doors from mutual friends and started inserting herself into my personal life” is a bit ridiculous in my opinion. You cannot halfway air out a feud. If Ethel really is playing some sort of Machiavellian game and getting involved in Lana’s personal life, beyond just probably texting Jack Donoghue (her friend) sometimes, then prove it. If not, Lana risks looking really foolish and snark brained, taking secondhand statements from her friends and Ethel’s as fact.

So, who’s in the right?

If this was a car crash, I would assign more blame and negligence to the side of Lana than to Ethel. I feel like as a married woman with a very successful career, it’s a really stupid detour to beef with a girl who is not even gunning for her spot. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems like Lana saw that Ethel has getting hit with a lot of bad faith accusations of racism and edgelord behavior with screenshots from 8+ years ago, and decided it was a good time to twist the knife.

In the comments of my preliminary post about this, it seems like many Ethel detractors fail to bolster the arguments Lana made, and instead choose just call her a racist. This leads me to believe that just like Lana, her fans also have mostly nothing and instead will weaponize whatever snark talking points are floating around to secure a victory. They should be careful, however, because most of those points come from transphobic pieces of shit on Kiwi Farms who simply want to Ethel’s career dead in a ditch.

All in all, this whole dispute seems incredibly stupid. I wish the both of them would just make music together and make up instead of clashing. They are both generationally talented female singer-songwriters and it’s just feels like a real wasted opportunity to me.

Some Updates

All of these are now reflected in the article, but my original coverage could’ve been more precise on a few details. Here’s some changes I made:

First Update: In my original coverage, there was mention of Ethel Cain *allegedly* stating that she ran past Lana Del Rey (creatively) and “pushed her over”. It seems that this comment actually originated from a former or fake Ethel account that doesn’t appear to be run by her, but instead a fan. Here’s some proof of that, you can see that this account that’s supposed to be her has 173 followers and is still advertising an EP from 2019, despite this account being created in 2024, a few details that just don’t really add up for me.

Second Update: While it is true that Ethel Cain posted a photo with Jack Donoghue with the caption “ok my turn” after Lana posted a similar photo, it turns out this was actually in response to a photo of Julia Fox and Donoghue kissing, posted by an archive account. Check that out here. I would read this as more of a light friendly ribbing to Donoghue for getting around than it is a slight to Lana or Julia, but that’s just my read.

Third Update: “Ethel’s friend” that many Lana stans keep quoting as the person who Ethel was calling Lana “fat” to, may not exactly be her friend. While they are vaguely associated, it seems like this girl is more of an early adopter or “punisher” type Stan figure than she is an active friend that Ethel would gossip to. I found their connection to be tenuous at best, and regardless, it’s her words, not Ethel’s. So even if they were best friends, to put those quotes on Ethel like she said them is ignorant.

With that being said: I think Lana fans are actually reaching pretty hardcore. I think they want there to be Ethel disses towards Lana’s artistry and weight floating out there for them to cite, but they seem to have difficulty actually substantiating them. I think all of this puts Ethel in a really shitty position where’s she’s once again going to have to make a statement or manifesto exonerating her of wrongdoing, but even responding is going to make her look controversial or defensive. I feel like all of this could’ve been avoided if Lana and Ethel’s camps just communicated in private, it seems like publicly calling Ethel out, while attention grabbing, was very shortsighted and misguided on Lana’s part.

Let me know what you think down below, and don’t forget to like and subscribe. Take care.